[ODE] Latest Commit

[Doron Tal]

Hi Jon,

Fair enough -- and thanks as well for the shared "rants".

To name the source-level debuggers that have a gui and support c++,
use ddd with gdb or xxgdb with gdb -- that's if you want to trace
through your program line by  line and see it executing and set
breakpoints.  These work just fine with all my c++ programs, but
the truth is I rarely use it because for tracing through program
execution something needs to be really wrong. 

Windows is probably here to stay, and so is Linux.  Perhaps a good
constructive thing to come out of our discussion is that ODE should run on
both.  Having compiled most of my programs for both platfoms I've
noticed that the two compilers often complain about different things --
thus compiling with both would make the code more solid.

Thanks,
-D


Jon Watte (ODE) wrote:

>
> Please, name one source-level debugger that runs on Linux and supports 
> C++, that's not based on GDB. It doesn't matter if it costs money, as 
> long as you can ACTUALLY purchase it. (I haven't found one)
>
> My point is that a large set of the ODE community uses MSVC, and an 
> overwhelming majority of game developers use MSVC in daily work, 
> probably because of its good productivity features. If you choose to 
> use any tool set to build ODE that's not well integrated with MSVC, 
> you will alienate this community, and you will likely push ODE into 
> the fringes.
>
>
> I worked on UNIX implementations twenty years ago, so I know a fair 
> bit about the wonders of UNIX. Now, regarding UNIX credibility, I also 
> have a rant about how to use make correctly (as opposed to 99% of UNIX 
> build processes out there :-)
>
> http://www.mindcontrol.org/~hplus/makesample.html
>
> Just sayin'...
>
> Cheers,
>
>             / h+
>
> Doron Tal wrote:
>
>> I don't have time to waste on this topic, but I'd like to just say 
>> briefly
>> that if you're just talking about gdb you seem to be missing on
>> the rest of the programming tools available on Unix systems.  Unix
>> was developed by programmers for programmers, that's why
>> it has hundreds of tools available.  The simple automation achievable
>> using makefiles and shell scripts has still not been surpassed by
>> Windows.  Windows is a non-standard, proprietary, platform
>> that's used only by people who can afford it.  Windows also has
>> had a historical tendency to stray from standards -- standard C++
>> for example -- and this is a huge problem.  Your rant on gdb is
>> misinformed -- you don't seem to be aware of the many GUIs
>> available as front end to gdb, or of nifty features such as gdb
>> attaching to a running process.  You need to be fair if you rant,
>> and consider the multitude of tools that have become available,
>> like kcachegrind and the rest of the valgrind suite, ddd or xxgdb,
>> kdevelop.  Together, these tools make Unix infinitely better as a
>> development environment in comparison with Windows.
>> I was a Windows developer for years as part of my job, but have
>> always preferred a linux system when my boss did not force me
>> to use it.  Unix is plainly speaking much more standard, and much
>> more reachable to a greater number of programmers.  Until today,
>> I compile all my programs with both Windows VS6 and g++ and
>> I believe the Unix suite of hundreds of tools is far superior.
>>
>> Now if you're programming games that you only want running under
>> windows, then I can understand why you'd use Microsoft, but I suspect
>> this strategy will be limiting, as Windows slowly fades away from being
>> the primary OS of this world.
>> -D
>>
>> Jon Watte (ODE) wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> What my point is is that, for me, and everyone I've worked with, the 
>>> MSVC debugger is so much more productive than MinGW/Cygwin that 
>>> anyone trying the latter is just wasting their money. I can't really 
>>> take anyone saying that GDB is more useable than MSVC for general 
>>> application development and debugging seriously. (Each of the tools 
>>> has some tragic flaw, for sure, but GDB has more of them and a much 
>>> less responsive UI)
>>>
>>> I couldn't care less about the politics. Well, actually, I do care a 
>>> little bit: read my rant about UNIX debugging at:
>>>
>>> http://www.mindcontrol.org/~hplus/misc/unix-debugger.html
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>>             / h+
>>>
>>> Gary R. Van Sickle wrote:
>>>
>>>>> MinGW/Cygwin isn't really an option for serious development on 
>>>>> Windows.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> AHEM.  Or so The Man would like you to believe.
>>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
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