[ODE] Re-inventing the wheel

Sat May 17 07:55:02 2003

"Different forums: newbies, algorithms, advanced,
error reporting, general discussion etc."

I too would love to see a nice set of forums to replace the mailing list.

----Original Message Follows----
From: Shaul Kedem <shaul_kedem@yahoo.com>
To: Allan Simonsen <Simonsen@rocketmail.com>, ode@q12.org
Subject: Re: [ODE] Re-inventing the wheel
Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 06:57:01 -0700 (PDT)

Allan,
  IMHO, this are all great suggestions (seeing that I
am not going to be the one which will implement them
as well... probably), so before listing what I think
should be added I must remind you that this is an open
source project and seeing the evolution of it so far
it looks like it is an after hours spare time kind of
a thing (and still its one of the best projects out
there...).

  Anyway, the things I can add to the list below are:

  - A note in each of the emails in this list pointing
to help resources.

  - Different forums: newbies, algorithms, advanced,
error reporting, general discussion etc. - I was
against it about a year ago, but since then the user
base got bigger and nowadays we have 400(!) message in
a good month...

  - A tutorial: part of the "ODE for dummies" should be
a tutorial(s?) giving the basics and maybe the more
advanced stuff later on.

  - Having some sort of common grounds: the
mathematical bases , the physical bases and whatever
is needed are very important as well.

Well, that's it, all in all I think anyone who start
using ODE encounters obstacles , but later on, through
using the library (and turning the knobs) he become
proficient.

Best,
Shaul Kedem.

--- Allan Simonsen <Simonsen@rocketmail.com> wrote:
 > Just a thought that came to me after lurking on this
 > list for 6 months: Most new programmers that starts
 > using ODE is forced to reinvent the wheel (in some
 > cases quite literally).
 >
 > Have a look at the past messages, and you'll see
 > some
 > clear trends:
 >
 > * "How do I compile ODE for VS6 / VS.NET"; most new
 > programmers are comming in from the Windows world,
 > and
 > some have a fair amount of problems setting up a
 > correct ODE workspace. A lack of good "idiot's guide
 > to ODE" style tutorials is probably not helping.
 >
 > * "How do I collide with triangles?" (quickly
 > followed
 > by someone posting a link to OpCode, and the
 > subsequent frantic pleas for help as the new ODE
 > user
 > frantically tries to hack OpCode into his system
 > with
 > varying degrees of success). Variations on this
 > include "How do I collide against a BSP?" and "How
 > do
 > I collide against a heightmap?"
 >
 > * "How do I make a car?", followed by the
 > heart-wrenching pain as the poor fellow learns all
 > the
 > fun and games of the wriggly-wheel problem,
 > colliding
 > against non-primitive geometry, etc.
 >
 > * "How do I make a rag-doll?"; well.. haven't seen
 > this as much as I would have expected. Most of those
 > that WOULD have asked are still suffering from
 > several
 > mental trauma from trying to integrate OpCode
 >
 > Most of the experienced users on this list have
 > already solved these problems: in some cases they've
 > even released the source-code, drifting around on
 > the
 > net, which the enterprising young coder can cobble
 > together with varying degrees of success...
 >
 > I would postulate that the biggest barrier ODE needs
 > to cross to increase it's user-base is to lower the
 > entry-threshold, and decrease the learning curve.
 > One
 > way to do that is to *stop re-inventing the wheel*.
 > Everyone that wants to use ODE goes through the same
 > steps, hunts for the same answers, and meets the
 > same
 > problems: surely there must be a better way to spend
 > our time (such as making the actual games ? ;)
 >
 >
 > * Someone previously suggested that we should
 > include
 > a VC6 and/or VC.NET workspace zipped up inside the
 > tarball: SDL already does this, and it greatly
 > reduces
 > the trauma a fresh windoze programmer goes through
 > when first meeting the package.
 >
 > * Introduce new collision primitives: most of you
 > have
 > already made these: why not make a move to include a
 > complete "OpCode Collision Primitive" and "Heightmap
 > Collision Primitive", with support for collision
 > against all other primitives. This would go a LONG
 > way
 > towards making ODE usable out of the box, and save
 > everyone time. It'll also save people from
 > implementing sub-optimal solutions (such as
 > implementing a heightmap through OpCode, or
 > implementing only a subset of vs. Primitive
 > functions). Surely people like David Whittaker, Nate
 > Waddoups and Anselm Hook already have this
 > source-code
 > lying around; why not integrate it into the main
 > code-base ?
 >
 > * Providing classes that encapsulate advanced
 > behaviour: Two examples that spring to mind would be
 > a
 > functional and stable Car, and a rag-doll. While
 > this
 > wouldn't be a universally usable solution, it would
 > at
 > least serve as a better starting point. (How many of
 > you have made at least one car-simulation based on
 > the
 > little Tri-wheeled Rover example that comes with the
 > default distro). The idea would be to provide a
 > real-world example on how you COULD use this ODE for
 > the task, complete with the requisite hacks to get
 > around slidy/bendy wheels, etc.
 >
 > Anyways: it's easy to suggest these things when I
 > probably won't be the person implementing it, so
 > I'll
 > just crawl back to Karma (which is what we use at
 > work), and go back to lurking...
 >
 > Thanks,
 >
 > Allan Simonsen
 >
 >
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